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	<title>Comments on: Animal testing &#8211; a positive EU proposal to eliminate unnecessary suffering</title>
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	<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering</link>
	<description>Discussion about ethical issues relating to business</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:10:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4725</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 05:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4725</guid>
		<description>Hi Gennaro,

To tell you the truth, I don&#039;t really know a great deal about Gandhi, but from what I have heard, I take it that he was an extremely wise man.

Whilst I would agree with him that animals are important, and that treatment of animals does cast a reflection upon a nation that would not be the most important aspect in my opinion. In my view, the treatment of the lowest class of people would be the most important aspect that I would personally take into account when judging the health of any particular society.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Andrews last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/why-do-real-estate-and-used-car-sales-attract-crooks&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why do real estate and used car sales attract crooks?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gennaro,</p>
<p>To tell you the truth, I don&#8217;t really know a great deal about Gandhi, but from what I have heard, I take it that he was an extremely wise man.</p>
<p>Whilst I would agree with him that animals are important, and that treatment of animals does cast a reflection upon a nation that would not be the most important aspect in my opinion. In my view, the treatment of the lowest class of people would be the most important aspect that I would personally take into account when judging the health of any particular society.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Andrews last blog post..<a href="http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/why-do-real-estate-and-used-car-sales-attract-crooks" rel="nofollow">Why do real estate and used car sales attract crooks?</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Gennaro</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4722</link>
		<dc:creator>Gennaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 18:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4722</guid>
		<description>Well intentioned proposal from the EU. It&#039;s important to limit or end the suffering of animals. As Gandhi said, &quot;The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.&quot;

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Gennaros last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/EnduringWanderlust/~3/qu728NOMdGs/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Memorial Day Weekend: Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well intentioned proposal from the EU. It&#8217;s important to limit or end the suffering of animals. As Gandhi said, &#8220;The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.&#8221;</p>
<p><abbr><em>Gennaros last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/EnduringWanderlust/~3/qu728NOMdGs/" rel="nofollow">Memorial Day Weekend: Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4684</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 08:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4684</guid>
		<description>Brad,

I too, am not particularly an expert in terms of scientific research. 

The &#039;duplication&#039; to which I refer above occurs where one scientist or group of scientists conducts an experiment which is of a substantially similar nature to that which other scientist or research teams had conducted on a previous occasion.

This kind of duplication may or may not be inefficient. Indeed, there might be some cases whereby research teams purposefully conduct experimentation which replicates the earlier work of others. It is possible, for instance, that a research team may wish to perform some forms of testing which are substantially similar in nature to that earlier &#039;failed&#039; experiments by other scientists in order to confirm for themselves that such test results were indeed accurate prior to disregarding certain theories or hypothesis. 

In such cases, the &#039;duplication&#039; of experiments concerned would not be wasteful, but instead would reflect diligence on the part of the research team who conducted the experiment.

Where duplication can be wasteful is cases whereby research teams essentially replicate earlier failed experiments by other scientists for no other reason than they were unaware that such an experiment had been tried without success by others.

(I hope this makes some sense)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Andrews last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/why-do-real-estate-and-used-car-sales-attract-crooks&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why do real estate and used car sales attract crooks?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>I too, am not particularly an expert in terms of scientific research. </p>
<p>The &#8216;duplication&#8217; to which I refer above occurs where one scientist or group of scientists conducts an experiment which is of a substantially similar nature to that which other scientist or research teams had conducted on a previous occasion.</p>
<p>This kind of duplication may or may not be inefficient. Indeed, there might be some cases whereby research teams purposefully conduct experimentation which replicates the earlier work of others. It is possible, for instance, that a research team may wish to perform some forms of testing which are substantially similar in nature to that earlier &#8216;failed&#8217; experiments by other scientists in order to confirm for themselves that such test results were indeed accurate prior to disregarding certain theories or hypothesis. </p>
<p>In such cases, the &#8216;duplication&#8217; of experiments concerned would not be wasteful, but instead would reflect diligence on the part of the research team who conducted the experiment.</p>
<p>Where duplication can be wasteful is cases whereby research teams essentially replicate earlier failed experiments by other scientists for no other reason than they were unaware that such an experiment had been tried without success by others.</p>
<p>(I hope this makes some sense)</p>
<p><abbr><em>Andrews last blog post..<a href="http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/why-do-real-estate-and-used-car-sales-attract-crooks" rel="nofollow">Why do real estate and used car sales attract crooks?</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Brad Shorr</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4664</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Shorr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4664</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I don&#039;t know a whole lot about scientific research. You may be right about efficiency in that area - but how is it to be determined what is &quot;inefficient&quot; and what is &quot;duplication&quot;? If the regulation is sensible and has more upside than downside, I&#039;m sure willing to look at it more deeply.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Brad Shorrs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wordsellinc.com/blog/content-optimization/keywords-in-anchor-text-produce-seo-power/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Keywords in Anchor Text Produce SEO Power&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, I don&#8217;t know a whole lot about scientific research. You may be right about efficiency in that area &#8211; but how is it to be determined what is &#8220;inefficient&#8221; and what is &#8220;duplication&#8221;? If the regulation is sensible and has more upside than downside, I&#8217;m sure willing to look at it more deeply.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Brad Shorrs last blog post..<a href="http://www.wordsellinc.com/blog/content-optimization/keywords-in-anchor-text-produce-seo-power/" rel="nofollow">Keywords in Anchor Text Produce SEO Power</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: drew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4663</link>
		<dc:creator>drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4663</guid>
		<description>Mark,

I agree, but the unfortunate reality is that human consciousness has been known to fail and it is necessary for the law to step in in such cases.

Unfortunate, but true.


Mikael,

Thanks for your comment and welcome to my blog.

Time will tell whether or not this type of arrangement will work in reality, and I guess that we will just have to wait and see about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>I agree, but the unfortunate reality is that human consciousness has been known to fail and it is necessary for the law to step in in such cases.</p>
<p>Unfortunate, but true.</p>
<p>Mikael,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment and welcome to my blog.</p>
<p>Time will tell whether or not this type of arrangement will work in reality, and I guess that we will just have to wait and see about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mikael @ Retire Early</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4661</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikael @ Retire Early</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4661</guid>
		<description>Doing things twice can (IMO) never be effective so I find it to be a great idea to share testing results. Whether or not it can/will be done in reality is another thing and I&#039;m not quite sure that I believe it is going to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing things twice can (IMO) never be effective so I find it to be a great idea to share testing results. Whether or not it can/will be done in reality is another thing and I&#8217;m not quite sure that I believe it is going to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4649</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 15:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4649</guid>
		<description>This is a step in the right direction. It is unfortunate that this has to be legislated. This should come from our consciousness and not from law.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Marks last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://tobeme.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/leaning-allowed/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Leaning Allowed&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a step in the right direction. It is unfortunate that this has to be legislated. This should come from our consciousness and not from law.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Marks last blog post..<a href="http://tobeme.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/leaning-allowed/" rel="nofollow">Leaning Allowed</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4647</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4647</guid>
		<description>Hi Karen,

As far as I understand it, the new directive will apply only to research which is actually carried out in laboratories which are physically located within the EU. 

In cases where the research concerned takes place in a laboratory which is physically located in the U.S, my understanding is that the new directive will not apply even if the research was conducted by a European company.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Andrews last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Animal testing - a positive EU proposal to eliminate unnecessary suffering&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen,</p>
<p>As far as I understand it, the new directive will apply only to research which is actually carried out in laboratories which are physically located within the EU. </p>
<p>In cases where the research concerned takes place in a laboratory which is physically located in the U.S, my understanding is that the new directive will not apply even if the research was conducted by a European company.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Andrews last blog post..<a href="http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering" rel="nofollow">Animal testing &#8211; a positive EU proposal to eliminate unnecessary suffering</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4646</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4646</guid>
		<description>Hi Ana,

Your passion for the well being of animals more than abundantly reflected in the discussions on your blog, and it does not surprise me that you have a very strong viewpoint with respect to this matter.

In my response to Brad&#039;s comment, I perhaps wasn&#039;t altogether clear with regard to my opinion about the matter of government regulation. 

I was certainly not trying to imply that laboratories which conduct tests using animals should not be subject to regulation, and I can certainly see your point about how an environment of insufficient forms of regulation can lead to the proliferation of immoral or responsible practices in the areas to which you refer.

Indeed, I think that laboratories which use animals for testing purposes should be subject to some form of government regulation and oversight, which should specify clear rules about the type of practices which are and are not acceptable when using animals for part of the testing process.

What we need in terms of regulation is not necessarily more regulation or less regulation, but better, clearer, simpler regulation which serves to minimize the impact of testing upon animals without unduly impeding the process of scientific discovery.

In addition, in spite of any possible implication to the contrary as a result of my response to Brad&#039;s comment, I do not think under any circumstances that we can rely purely upon human goodwill or decency to make up for a lack of effective regulation. Instead, what we need is effective regulation which is not overly burdensome and provides for a degree of flexibility to allow for scientists to exercise a measure of professional judgment and a degree of basic common sense.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Andrews last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Animal testing - a positive EU proposal to eliminate unnecessary suffering&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ana,</p>
<p>Your passion for the well being of animals more than abundantly reflected in the discussions on your blog, and it does not surprise me that you have a very strong viewpoint with respect to this matter.</p>
<p>In my response to Brad&#8217;s comment, I perhaps wasn&#8217;t altogether clear with regard to my opinion about the matter of government regulation. </p>
<p>I was certainly not trying to imply that laboratories which conduct tests using animals should not be subject to regulation, and I can certainly see your point about how an environment of insufficient forms of regulation can lead to the proliferation of immoral or responsible practices in the areas to which you refer.</p>
<p>Indeed, I think that laboratories which use animals for testing purposes should be subject to some form of government regulation and oversight, which should specify clear rules about the type of practices which are and are not acceptable when using animals for part of the testing process.</p>
<p>What we need in terms of regulation is not necessarily more regulation or less regulation, but better, clearer, simpler regulation which serves to minimize the impact of testing upon animals without unduly impeding the process of scientific discovery.</p>
<p>In addition, in spite of any possible implication to the contrary as a result of my response to Brad&#8217;s comment, I do not think under any circumstances that we can rely purely upon human goodwill or decency to make up for a lack of effective regulation. Instead, what we need is effective regulation which is not overly burdensome and provides for a degree of flexibility to allow for scientists to exercise a measure of professional judgment and a degree of basic common sense.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Andrews last blog post..<a href="http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering" rel="nofollow">Animal testing &#8211; a positive EU proposal to eliminate unnecessary suffering</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Karen Swim</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/animal-testing-a-positive-eu-proposal-to-eliminate-unnecessary-suffering#comment-4642</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Swim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 00:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=566#comment-4642</guid>
		<description>Andrew, you have deftly handled a troubling and sensitive topic. I worked for many years in healthcare / pharma / diagnostics. I worked for an EU company also in the U.S. As you know most of pharma is based in the EU, so I wonder if US R&amp;D facilities will be impacted by the directive as well. Many companies have sought alternatives to animal testing but as you noted it will not be eliminated any time in the near term. Eliminating duplication is a good step and one that I applaud.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Karen Swims last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/WordsForHire/~3/SVbNPAJyH1U/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Down the Rabbit Hole and into the Archives&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, you have deftly handled a troubling and sensitive topic. I worked for many years in healthcare / pharma / diagnostics. I worked for an EU company also in the U.S. As you know most of pharma is based in the EU, so I wonder if US R&amp;D facilities will be impacted by the directive as well. Many companies have sought alternatives to animal testing but as you noted it will not be eliminated any time in the near term. Eliminating duplication is a good step and one that I applaud.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Karen Swims last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/WordsForHire/~3/SVbNPAJyH1U/" rel="nofollow">Down the Rabbit Hole and into the Archives</a></em></abbr></p>
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