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	<title>Comments on: Corporate Social Responsibility part 7 &#8211; The Role of Governments in Promoting Responsible Business Practices</title>
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	<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices</link>
	<description>Discussion about ethical issues relating to business</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:10:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Real Estate Investor</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>Real Estate Investor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 04:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-357</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed your article, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed your article, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Indeed this is turning into an interesting discussion - thank you Brad, Lauren and Karen for your contributions to it.

I do take Brad&#039;s point about excessive concentration of power in the hands of either individual corporations or governments.

Exon Mobil and their apparent disregard for any form of environmental or social responsibility is a good example of the consequences of excessive power in the hands of a corporation.

For the consequences of excessive government power, we only have to look at examples such as China or Russia, or worse, Zimbabwe, Myanmar or North Korea just to name a few.

Brad&#039;s example above does provide a demonstration of the dangers of government interference even in a free, stable democracy like America.

I still do believe that governments should take a proactive stance in encouraging ethical conduct, and with respect to Lauren&#039;s point, I do believe that effective laws as well as an effective system of law enforcement and justice is necessary in order to limit unacceptable corporate behavior.

With regards to Brad&#039;s point about small business and small government, I do agree that excessive concentration of power is fraught with potential problems. However, at the other end of the spectrum, highly fragmented industries produce ethical problems of their own, particularly in cases of industries which are characterized by low transaction volumes and high margins per transaction.

I am not familar with the situation in America, but in Australia, such industries such as construction, real estate sales or used car sales appear to be amongst the industries most fraught with ethical abuses.

True, over concentration of power in the hands of few industries players leads to potential ethical abuses, but so too does can an undue extent of industry fragmentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed this is turning into an interesting discussion &#8211; thank you Brad, Lauren and Karen for your contributions to it.</p>
<p>I do take Brad&#8217;s point about excessive concentration of power in the hands of either individual corporations or governments.</p>
<p>Exon Mobil and their apparent disregard for any form of environmental or social responsibility is a good example of the consequences of excessive power in the hands of a corporation.</p>
<p>For the consequences of excessive government power, we only have to look at examples such as China or Russia, or worse, Zimbabwe, Myanmar or North Korea just to name a few.</p>
<p>Brad&#8217;s example above does provide a demonstration of the dangers of government interference even in a free, stable democracy like America.</p>
<p>I still do believe that governments should take a proactive stance in encouraging ethical conduct, and with respect to Lauren&#8217;s point, I do believe that effective laws as well as an effective system of law enforcement and justice is necessary in order to limit unacceptable corporate behavior.</p>
<p>With regards to Brad&#8217;s point about small business and small government, I do agree that excessive concentration of power is fraught with potential problems. However, at the other end of the spectrum, highly fragmented industries produce ethical problems of their own, particularly in cases of industries which are characterized by low transaction volumes and high margins per transaction.</p>
<p>I am not familar with the situation in America, but in Australia, such industries such as construction, real estate sales or used car sales appear to be amongst the industries most fraught with ethical abuses.</p>
<p>True, over concentration of power in the hands of few industries players leads to potential ethical abuses, but so too does can an undue extent of industry fragmentation.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Shorr</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Shorr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-100</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrew, Karen, Lauren. This is turning into quite an interesting conversation. Unfortunately, any organization comprised of human tends toward corruption, whether the organization is corporate or political in nature. The bigger the organization, the more dangerous the corruption.  I think Lauren is right insofar that big business, if unchecked, will engage in all kinds of abuses, which is exactly what happened in the early 20th century and led to the formation of unions and fair trade laws, etc. But to assume that government is by nature a moral check on an immoral free market is I think a dangerous assumption. The mortgage meltdown is a case in point. Some have argued that it was Congress that caused the problem in the first place by pressuring lending institutions to make loans to disadvantaged people whether they were credit worthy or not. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the whole truth, but it was definitely a contributing factor. Small business and small government  is preferable to concentrated power of either variety, but especially concentrated governmental power, because its power is absolutely coercive.

Brad Shorrs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wordsellinc.com/blog/copywriting/what-do-golf-and-writing-have-in-common/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;12 Things Writing and Golf Have in Common&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrew, Karen, Lauren. This is turning into quite an interesting conversation. Unfortunately, any organization comprised of human tends toward corruption, whether the organization is corporate or political in nature. The bigger the organization, the more dangerous the corruption.  I think Lauren is right insofar that big business, if unchecked, will engage in all kinds of abuses, which is exactly what happened in the early 20th century and led to the formation of unions and fair trade laws, etc. But to assume that government is by nature a moral check on an immoral free market is I think a dangerous assumption. The mortgage meltdown is a case in point. Some have argued that it was Congress that caused the problem in the first place by pressuring lending institutions to make loans to disadvantaged people whether they were credit worthy or not. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the whole truth, but it was definitely a contributing factor. Small business and small government  is preferable to concentrated power of either variety, but especially concentrated governmental power, because its power is absolutely coercive.</p>
<p>Brad Shorrs last blog post..<a href="http://www.wordsellinc.com/blog/copywriting/what-do-golf-and-writing-have-in-common/" rel="nofollow">12 Things Writing and Golf Have in Common</a></p>
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		<title>By: drew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Lauren/Karen,

Thank you both for your kind words and comments.

In relation to Lauren&#039;s point, I too, feel that at times, &#039;the market&#039; is given a little too much reverence.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I believe fully in a free market economy whereby individuals are free to conduct business in an innovative manner without undue interference from government.

But I do believe that the market has its flaws, and sensible government intervention is sometimes required to ensure fairness and equity in the system.

Let me stress, I am only referring to sensible government intervention. As per Karen&#039;s point, in cases where legislation is either poorly drafted or unnecessarily overbearing, it can be counter productive in terms of encouraging ethical behavior or producing fair social outcomes.

Cheers

Andrew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lauren/Karen,</p>
<p>Thank you both for your kind words and comments.</p>
<p>In relation to Lauren&#8217;s point, I too, feel that at times, &#8216;the market&#8217; is given a little too much reverence.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I believe fully in a free market economy whereby individuals are free to conduct business in an innovative manner without undue interference from government.</p>
<p>But I do believe that the market has its flaws, and sensible government intervention is sometimes required to ensure fairness and equity in the system.</p>
<p>Let me stress, I am only referring to sensible government intervention. As per Karen&#8217;s point, in cases where legislation is either poorly drafted or unnecessarily overbearing, it can be counter productive in terms of encouraging ethical behavior or producing fair social outcomes.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Swim</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Swim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-87</guid>
		<description>Andrew, your points were great and I am all for ideal! I think living in the US however, I have unfortunately seen less than ideal. To Lauren&#039;s point, I am not suggesting that government should not have a role only that as it presently stands when government imposes law it further perverts the practice. A perfect example is the adoption of CSR laws following Enron. Laws designed to keep companies honest and protect employees and shareholders have been used to convict ordinary citizens. Right now I have a friend who was the victim of one of those laws (not a thief, murderer, rapist or pedophile, with no criminal history), a business woman who was swindled in a deal now serving 7 years in jail. Her story is not unique. This happens while corporations out to do harm, simply throw money at politicians to obtain &quot;favorable&quot; treatment. We falsely believe that once there is a law the innocent will have protection but that is very often not the case. 

Great discussion Andrew and I appreciate you challenging us to think and talk about these important issues.

Karen

Karen Swims last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://wordsforhirellc.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/embrace-your-obstacles/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Embrace Your Obstacles&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, your points were great and I am all for ideal! I think living in the US however, I have unfortunately seen less than ideal. To Lauren&#8217;s point, I am not suggesting that government should not have a role only that as it presently stands when government imposes law it further perverts the practice. A perfect example is the adoption of CSR laws following Enron. Laws designed to keep companies honest and protect employees and shareholders have been used to convict ordinary citizens. Right now I have a friend who was the victim of one of those laws (not a thief, murderer, rapist or pedophile, with no criminal history), a business woman who was swindled in a deal now serving 7 years in jail. Her story is not unique. This happens while corporations out to do harm, simply throw money at politicians to obtain &#8220;favorable&#8221; treatment. We falsely believe that once there is a law the innocent will have protection but that is very often not the case. </p>
<p>Great discussion Andrew and I appreciate you challenging us to think and talk about these important issues.</p>
<p>Karen</p>
<p>Karen Swims last blog post..<a href="http://wordsforhirellc.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/embrace-your-obstacles/" rel="nofollow">Embrace Your Obstacles</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lauren Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrew,

With due respect to my fellow commenters, I think your observations are right on.  If making money was the only measure for corporate success, we&#039;d have no environmental laws, no labor laws, no antitrust laws, no fraud prevention laws, and we&#039;d be in one heck of a mess.  The subprime mortgage meltdown that&#039;s wreaking havoc across the globe is a marvelous example of what happens when the urge to make money runs amok.  While the laws that prohibit fraud didn&#039;t prevent the crisis, under those laws there will be trials, convictions, and civil suits that result in damages being paid to innocent, injured people. Without those laws, we&#039;d see a lot more of the same.   

I grow increasingly frustrated with the &quot;the market is God&quot; thinking that drives so many business theorists today. It would be lovely if everyone who worked in business was honest, honorable, and committed to making a profit while doing no harm.  Until that day arrives, government definitely has a role to play in keeping business from doing permanent damage in the name of short-term profits.

Lauren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrew,</p>
<p>With due respect to my fellow commenters, I think your observations are right on.  If making money was the only measure for corporate success, we&#8217;d have no environmental laws, no labor laws, no antitrust laws, no fraud prevention laws, and we&#8217;d be in one heck of a mess.  The subprime mortgage meltdown that&#8217;s wreaking havoc across the globe is a marvelous example of what happens when the urge to make money runs amok.  While the laws that prohibit fraud didn&#8217;t prevent the crisis, under those laws there will be trials, convictions, and civil suits that result in damages being paid to innocent, injured people. Without those laws, we&#8217;d see a lot more of the same.   </p>
<p>I grow increasingly frustrated with the &#8220;the market is God&#8221; thinking that drives so many business theorists today. It would be lovely if everyone who worked in business was honest, honorable, and committed to making a profit while doing no harm.  Until that day arrives, government definitely has a role to play in keeping business from doing permanent damage in the name of short-term profits.</p>
<p>Lauren</p>
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		<title>By: drew</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-84</guid>
		<description>Brad/Karen,

Your points are certainly valid.

I guess in writing this post, I adopted a normative viewpoint, and considered what should happen in an ideal world. 

In an ideal world, governments, as representatives of the people, could be trusted to reward ethical behavior in a fair and reasonable manner. Unfortunately, however, we live in the real world, where the process of favoritism and reward based upon ethical behavior easily becomes corrupted, and industries with considerable political muscle tend to benefit from such processes at the expense of those with less political muscle.

So, I certainly see your point about the dangers of favoring any companies or industries in the real world.

I do see the point both of you make about governments setting standards for ethical behavior when many governments around the world fail to adopt ethical practices themselves, and this underscores the importance of ethical conduct from govenments. 

I do believe that governments can set broad frameworks for ethical behavior. Governments should not be overly prescriptive in defining ethical behavior, but setting broad frameworks like the UN Social Charter at least gives busisness a map or guideline in setting their own ethical policies.


Cheers

Andrew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad/Karen,</p>
<p>Your points are certainly valid.</p>
<p>I guess in writing this post, I adopted a normative viewpoint, and considered what should happen in an ideal world. </p>
<p>In an ideal world, governments, as representatives of the people, could be trusted to reward ethical behavior in a fair and reasonable manner. Unfortunately, however, we live in the real world, where the process of favoritism and reward based upon ethical behavior easily becomes corrupted, and industries with considerable political muscle tend to benefit from such processes at the expense of those with less political muscle.</p>
<p>So, I certainly see your point about the dangers of favoring any companies or industries in the real world.</p>
<p>I do see the point both of you make about governments setting standards for ethical behavior when many governments around the world fail to adopt ethical practices themselves, and this underscores the importance of ethical conduct from govenments. </p>
<p>I do believe that governments can set broad frameworks for ethical behavior. Governments should not be overly prescriptive in defining ethical behavior, but setting broad frameworks like the UN Social Charter at least gives busisness a map or guideline in setting their own ethical policies.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Swim</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Swim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Andrew, Brad took the words right out of my mouth. Here in the U.S. it would be hypocritical for our government to draft standards for ethical or socially responsible behavior which is why I was particularly drawn to your point about setting an example. In this country, money is the foundation for all acts and corporations are able to leverage our government for policies that feed or protect their bottom line. We are sorely in need of ethical leaders that will not bow to the pressures of politics or money.

Karen Swims last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://wordsforhirellc.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/embrace-your-obstacles/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Embrace Your Obstacles&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, Brad took the words right out of my mouth. Here in the U.S. it would be hypocritical for our government to draft standards for ethical or socially responsible behavior which is why I was particularly drawn to your point about setting an example. In this country, money is the foundation for all acts and corporations are able to leverage our government for policies that feed or protect their bottom line. We are sorely in need of ethical leaders that will not bow to the pressures of politics or money.</p>
<p>Karen Swims last blog post..<a href="http://wordsforhirellc.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/embrace-your-obstacles/" rel="nofollow">Embrace Your Obstacles</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brad Shorr</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Shorr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-82</guid>
		<description>Andrew, while there is merit in your proposals and make a great deal of sense in the abstract, I would much prefer government to lead by example to promote ethical behavior, period. Ethical behavior can&#039;t be legislated, nor can it even be persuasively encouraged by a body that itself behaves marginally (The U.N., for instance). Were the government to reward ethical behavior (with our tax dollars) with any set of incentives, I don&#039;t see how the process could avoid becoming politicized and corrupted. Fundamentally, I am uncomfortable with a government being the arbiter of what constitutes ethical behavior. I think we as individuals have to decide what is ethical, and a governing body that sets a great example can help each of us make a better, more informed determination.

Brad Shorrs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wordsellinc.com/communication-skills/super-valuable-communication-efficiency-tip/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Super Valuable Communication Efficiency Tip&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, while there is merit in your proposals and make a great deal of sense in the abstract, I would much prefer government to lead by example to promote ethical behavior, period. Ethical behavior can&#8217;t be legislated, nor can it even be persuasively encouraged by a body that itself behaves marginally (The U.N., for instance). Were the government to reward ethical behavior (with our tax dollars) with any set of incentives, I don&#8217;t see how the process could avoid becoming politicized and corrupted. Fundamentally, I am uncomfortable with a government being the arbiter of what constitutes ethical behavior. I think we as individuals have to decide what is ethical, and a governing body that sets a great example can help each of us make a better, more informed determination.</p>
<p>Brad Shorrs last blog post..<a href="http://www.wordsellinc.com/communication-skills/super-valuable-communication-efficiency-tip/" rel="nofollow">Super Valuable Communication Efficiency Tip</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Harmon</title>
		<link>http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/corporate-social-responsibility-part-7-the-role-of-governments-in-promoting-responsible-business-practices#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Harmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goodhonestdollar.com/?p=80#comment-80</guid>
		<description>Well said</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said</p>
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