Comments on: Employee rights and responsibilities part 11: How big is the gender based pay gap?

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:15:48 +0000

Ladykat, In cases where women assume primary responsibility with respect to family and domestic related matters, I could certainly imagine that they would find it difficult to manage the workload requirements of some types of position and I have no doubt that this accounts for a fair part of the pay gap. Also, as you say, time out of the workforce for maternity leave purpose would certainly have in impact upon the ability of working women to advance their careers (as well as their earnings potential), particularly those in professions which undergo a constant state of change, such as the medical, legal or IT profession. Andrews last blog post..Thoughts for a nation in shock

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:02:57 +0000

T Edwards You raise some very interesting questions, and as you say, there are so many variables that it is extremely difficult to estimate the portion of the gender based pay gap which is attributable to discrimination in remuneration practices with a great degree of reliability. Indeed, in the AAUW study which I mentioned, even the authors acknowledge that opinions differ as to the size of the pay gap which is attributable to discrimination. The main study referred which I referred to above (the AAUW study) was actually more of a statistical analysis than a research study, under which the authors used a range of statistics from the Department of Education and the Labor Bureau, and attempted to use regression analysis in an attempt to quantify the impact of individual factors which are known to contribute to the overall pay gap. It would be interesting to compare the fortunes of a study group consisting only of unmarried men and women (I say ‘unmarried’ so as to eliminate the effect of family responsibilities) of similar educational qualification in similar professions with similar levels of experience and responsibilities. Even so, there are severe limitations to the usefulness of statistical analysis in this regard, and I would imagine that there would be very few organizations which practice any form of deliberate or purposeful discrimination based on gender (or any other factor) in terms of their remuneration practices. Andrews last blog post..Thoughts for a nation in shock

By: T Edwards

T Edwards — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 16:32:42 +0000

Gender based compensation disparity seems to be a phenomenon that’s getting more and more difficult to track. Many organizations in our speed/productivity focused cultures are simply targeting in on the best performers. True, there may be instances of women not being as demanding or skilled in their salary negotiations but the same can be said of men. As far as the stats, there are so many variables that must be taken into account that I’m not sure if the numbers are accurate. For instance, the average male worker on a loading dock is probably higher paid than the average female loading dock worker. Is this due to gender bias or because the ratio of male to female dock workers is greatly skewed to the male side? Is the average female dock worker a bookkeeper in the office or is she operating a crane? In the studies, are the control groups as similar as possible? Would there be a compensation difference in an elementary school, hospital, or science lab? I don’t know but my guess would be no.

Very interesting topic with A LOT of room for debate!

By: ladykat

ladykat — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 04:35:03 +0000

I believe that another factor affecting pay in the US is motherhood. Women who have children are often at a disadvantage in the United States. Setting aside the many benefits of motherhood, women who have children are often unable to work the grinding hours that many businesses expect and reward with promotions and higher salaries. When a woman takes three months off to have a child, she is out of the loop for three months. She may fall behind in performance and production and, in some cases, may never catch up. She is also the one who often has to take time off for childcare issues during work hours. And when a boss wants those extra hours either after work or on the weekends, it's much harder for women to comply, especially considering how many women are on their own as the sole heads of households. In my experience, I rarely see men take time off from work for childcare purposes. That doesn't mean they aren't great fathers, but both partners are socialized to the point where the women are the de facto sacrificers when something comes up child-related. I think that's why I see so many women in "pink collar" jobs. It's the only way they can have the flexibility of having a job and taking care of their kids at the same time. It's a work-obsessed country. If work comes in last place, then so do you. ladykats last blog post..Russian President's Dogs Win It Big!!!

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:41:30 +0000

Karen, Good on you for being assertive and accepting nothing less than the true market value for your services, and for teaching your clients to do the same. Whilst employees should not attempt to demand more than what their services are worth, no one should accept less than the market value for their services either. Cath, That kind of behavior in the media frustrates the living daylights out of me. I despise media practices of merely beating up issues to get headlines without any form of investigation or analysis of the real issues. I was not familiar with the Demi Moore situation in particular, but from your description, but her requests sound perfectly reasonable to me. Why should she accept less than the men? Andrews last blog post..Thoughts for a nation in shock

By: Cath Lawson

Cath Lawson — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:06:03 +0000

Hi Andrew - As you say, the issue is not as straightforward as it seems. I agree, many women are not as assertive as men when it comes to negotiating pay rises. But I'm betting that a lot of companies know that and take advantage of the fact. I also feel that the media can make things worse. Lots of male actors get millions of dollars per film and they usually receive lots of praise from the media. I've never seen anyone complain that guys like Richard Gere, or Brad Pitt are being greedy. But do you remember when Demi Moore wanted more money per film. The media had a field day banging on about how greedy she was and they were running headlines like, "Gimme Moore." And she still wasn't asking for as much as many male actors get. Cath Lawsons last blog post..How To Be Lucky

By: Karen Swim

Karen Swim — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:16:10 +0000

Andrew, thanks for writing about the gender based pay gap. It is a complex issue and too often the numbers are presented but the deeper issues never explored. In my corporate career I was often paid more than male counterparts. I ALWAYS negotiated my salary and negotiated non-standard compensation such as a sign-on bonus. I work with job seekers on salary negotiation techniques and they are often surprised how much you really can negotiate, and yes men are more willing to follow and implement my advice and delighted when they get more than what was offered. I am not in any way saying there is not discrimination in hiring practices - there is age,gender, and cultural and ethic bias - but I think to truly equalize the playing field we need to go beneath the surface and address the issue holistically. Karen Swims last blog post..A Novel Approach to Picking up Customers

By: drew

drew — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:42:11 +0000

Brad,

I must say that, if I were an employer, any preferential treatment would be more likely to go the way of any nicely presented young lady as opposed to any man, but that’s just me.

Your point about compensation data is fair enough. Remuneration, as you pointed out in the previous discussion, is a very broad based topic, and where non cash benefits make up a significant portion of an employee’s remuneration package, then it can be difficult to estimate the total monetary value of compensation packages with complete reliability, a limitation which must be recognized when considering statics based on such data.

You are

By: Brad Shorr

Brad Shorr — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:19:46 +0000

Hi Andrew, In my experience, I'd have to say it's a very mixed bag. I've seen women discriminated against, and it doesn't always manifest itself in remuneration. On the other hand, I have seen situations where women receive special favor. So much depends on the workplace culture and, as you so correctly point out, the behavior of the employee in question. One thing that is clear to me is that compensation data is never clear. I don't think conclusions based on such data can ever be fully trusted. Brad Shorrs last blog post..25 Writers Who Are Shaping My World